Podcasts
Maslow’s High Plateau Experience
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The most meaningful life may be built on a quieter, more teachable state called the High Plateau Experience. If you care about spirituality, psychology, meditation, or simply living with more awe and purpose, this episode will change how you think about transcendence. Dr. Alexandra Miller Clark unpacks Abraham Maslow’s original ideas about peak experiences, then moves into the lesser-known concept he explored near the end of his life – a more constant, serene way of perceiving the world as mythic, symbolic, and miraculous. Along the way, she shares the story of Maslow’s own nighttime “peak experience,” the paper he chose not to present, and the profound shift in perspective that came after his confrontation with mortality.You’ll discover:
- Why Maslow believed peak experiences are real, but shouldn’t be pursued like a thrill ride
- How self-transcendence shows up in Paul Wong’s model through beauty, present-moment awareness, and service to others
- What Maslow meant by “witnessing the world” and why he said you could “hold classes in the miraculous”
- The difference between a climactic peak and the steadier High Plateau Experience
- Why joy, sadness, awe, and mortality can all coexist in the same moment
- How meditation, spiritual practice, and meditative listening are linked to less anxiety, more meaning, and greater connectedness
Dr. Alexandra also brings in research and modern evidence, including studies on Lectio Divina, Dan Tomasulo’s work (https://dantomasulo.com), and a 2021 Frontiers in Psychology paper on self-transcendence and adolescent mental health. The result is a thoughtful, practical episode that connects Maslow’s theory to real-life practices you can actually use.This is essential listening if you want a deeper, more grounded kind of spirituality – one that doesn’t depend on chasing extraordinary moments, but on learning how to live with openness, wonder, and purpose in ordinary life.
Timestamps
00:00 – This episode is dedicated to internationalforgiveness.com and Maslow’s higher love
00:32 – What the high plateau experience is and how it differs from peak experiences
01:27 – Peak experiences as unforced moments of human transcendence
02:24 – Maslow’s own peak experience before his memorial lecture
03:21 – Why Maslow chose the academic paper instead of his personal experience
03:50 – The impact of peak experiences on self-acceptance and openness
04:56 – Why Maslow warned against chasing peak experiences for their own sake
05:26 – The bodhisattva ideal and helping others after awakening
06:20 – Paul Wong’s three levels of self-transcendence
07:12 – How Dr. Stanley Krippner helped preserve Maslow’s final talk
08:47 – Maslow’s shift into a more constant, mythic way of seeing
09:44 – Why the high plateau was more voluntary and teachable
10:49 – The plateau as witnessing the symbolic and miraculous in ordinary life
12:14 – Maslow’s Brandeis vision of an eternal academic procession
13:54 – How the plateau compresses time, memory, and meaning
15:20 – The paradox of permanence, mortality, joy, and sadness
16:28 – Why we do not need to wait for peak experiences to live meaningfully
17:27 – Research on meditative listening, meaning, and well-being
18:34 – Dr. Dan Tomasulo’s insights on spiritual practice and brain quieting
19:38 – Lisa Miller’s MRI research on the spiritual brain
20:15 – A 2021 study on self-transcendence and adolescent mental health
21:40 – Closing reflections
Notable quotes
“Achieving the mystic's sense of cosmic unity can be tremendously uplifting, but such a state must always be balanced by action in the daily world.”
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Maslow on Higher Love
Have you ever had a peak experience? Please share about it to help me with my next episode.
Discover how Abraham Maslow's insights into love reveal a profound distinction between deficiency love (D-love) and being love (B-love), and how these concepts can transform our relationships and self-understanding. This episode explores Maslow's research on healthy, exceptional humans and their capacity for higher love.
- The life and influence of Abraham Maslow on psychology and personal growth
- The hierarchy of needs and the simplified ERG theory by Clay Alderfer
- The concept of deficiency love (D-love) versus being love (B-love)
- Early attachment studies by Spitz, Bowlby, and Levy and their importance for human survival
- How love contributes to self-actualization and the well-being of exceptional individuals
- Practical applications of B-love in caregiving, relationships, and spiritual practice
- Maslow’s parallels between B-love, mystics’ love for God, and appreciation of art
- The impact of love on self-acceptance, growth, and human potential
- Personal stories illustrating the practice of love and compassion, including rescue of wildlife
Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: The episode’s focus on Abraham Maslow and higher love 00:25 – Maslow’s study of exceptional human beings and focusing on what’s good 00:54 – The hierarchy of needs and Clay Alderfer's ERG theory 1:24 – How needs can be flipped and the resilience of self-actualized individuals 2:24 – Maslow’s teachings on love and its role in human development 3:22 – Maslow’s method: studying healthy, creative, high-potential individuals 3:51 – Celebrated figures studied by Maslow, including Abraham Lincoln and Albert Schweitzer 4:32 – The concept of reverence for life and compassion in Albert Schweitzer 5:24 – Eleanor Roosevelt and the importance of universal human rights 5:35 – Maslow’s insights on different types of love: D-love and B-love 6:10 – Explanation of deficiency love (D-love) and early attachment needs 7:14 – Early attachment research and the tragic findings of Spitz’s studies 8:13 – The effects of lack of maternal attachment and attachment theory support 9:55 – The role of love in survival and Maslow’s view of deficiency love as a hole 11:23 – The nature of B-love as unselfish and abundant 11:34 – Qualities of B-love: unconditional, non-possessive, and joy-giving 12:01 – The therapeutic and spiritual power of experiencing B-love 12:54 – Personal stories of practicing love in caregiving and work 14:08 – The energy and vitality gained from loving without expectation 15:15 – B-love's spiritual and aesthetic connections 16:21 – Romantic love and the differences from B-love, including anxiety and independence 17:22 – The qualities of B-love in romantic relationships: autonomy, generosity, and depth 18:22 – The “love is blind” myth explained through neurochemistry 19:34 – The concept of intra-object richness—the fascination with loved ones 20:30 – Details and love for the beloved as an expression of deep connection 21:16 – How B-love influences self-perception, acceptance, and growth 22:02 – The distinction that deficiency love (D-love) can be gratified, but B-love offers spiritual fulfillment 22:58 – Personal story about rescuing baby raccoons, illustrating D-love and compassion 24:31 – The story of rescuing raccoons and connecting it to Maslow’s ideas 27:19 – Upcoming episode on peak experiences and plateau states in exceptional humans 28:47 – Practicing higher love and starting wherever we are emotionally 29:13 – Closing remarks and gratitude
This show was created with love on my volunteer time. One small gift you can give me back is to take the time to leave the show a comment and rating on iTunes. You can also support the production costs of the show by buying me a $3 coffee at buymeacoffee.com/dralexandra. I will be encouraged by your support, and thank you!
Family Estrangement: Insights and Solutions
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Recent studies indicate that about one in four Americans experience some form of family estrangement. This statistic is alarming, as many individuals report feeling deeply troubled by this estrangement. A significant portion of these estrangements occur between parents and their adult children, emphasizing the need for understanding and addressing familial relationships. In this podcast and video, expert guest Dr. Tamsen Thorpe and I explore the causes, implications and solutions for family estrangement, drawing on insights from experts in psychology and family dynamics.
What is Family Estrangement?
Family estrangement refers to a cutoff in communication or contact between family members. It ranges from complete no contact to limited interactions, such as only connecting through social media. It is not always a straightforward situation; some families might maintain superficial ties while feeling emotionally distant. Understanding these nuances is crucial for addressing the underlying issues that contribute to estrangement.
This show was created with love on my volunteer time. One small gift you can give me back is to take the time to leave the show a comment and rating on iTunes. You can also support the production costs of the show by buying me a $3 coffee at buymeacoffee.com/dralexandra. I will be encouraged by your support, and thank you!
Anger in Leadership with Dr. Julian Barling PhD and Dr. Simon Rego, PsyD
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You’re in a leadership role and the anger bubbles up. Or . . .you’re the subject of the leader experiencing anger. Learn about anger in leadership as well as transformational leadership from the best selling authors of the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy Workbook for Leaders: How Improving your Mental Health is Essential to Avoiding Burnout and Leading More Effectively, Dr. Julian Barling PhD and Dr. Simon A. Rego, PsyD. I have started sharing my podcasts on YouTube as well – find this one under @AlexandraMillerClark. Some gems I learned from this interview include:
* just a little bit of anger can be motivating
* showing anxiety can be more effective than showing anger as a leader . . . But not too much!
*sometimes it helps to say “I don’t know” or “I’m sorry”
*it’s good to prepare for future crises as leaders
*leaders who show anger are just humans with a range of emotions
This show was created with love on my volunteer time. One small gift you can give me back is to take the time to leave the show a comment and rating on iTunes. You can also support the production costs of the show by buying me a $3 coffee at buymeacoffee.com/dralexandra. I will be encouraged by your support, and thank you!
Short Episode: A Meditation to help with Resentment
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In this brief episode I share a helpful meditation / prayer to help with resentment. It has helped both my patients and myself and can be useful as we build the “forgiveness muscle.” To learn more about forgiveness, listen to the seventeen brief “forgiveness series” episodes on this show.
This show was created with love on my volunteer time. One small gift you can give me back is to take the time to leave the show a comment and rating on iTunes. You can also support the production costs of the show by buying me a $3 coffee at buymeacoffee.com/dralexandra. I will be encouraged by your support, and thank you!
Navigating Parenting Challenges with Compassion
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This episode was simultaneously recorded by video which can be found on LinkedIn or YouTube (Alexandra Miller Clark). In this episode, we explore themes of compassion, the importance of self-management in parenting and nervous system regulation. Dr. Nicole Dolan also discusses her forthcoming memoir, “The Art of Chaos,” which reflects on her experiences as a mother and therapist. Dr. Nicole Dolan is a licensed psychotherapist and the Founder of Sacred Paths non-profit group in California.
At the start of the show, I share about a Japanese hero, Sempo Sugihara, and dedicate the show to the National Liberty Museum in Philadelphia.
Conscious Parenting and Self-Management 05:39
Nervous System Regulation and Breathwork 09:02
Exploring Triggers and Emotional Responses 11:36
The Role of the Body in Therapy 15:46
Understanding Split Off Parts of Self 20:18
Reintegration of Trauma and Healing 26:08
The Art of Chaos: A Memoir 35:29
Surviving vs. Thriving in Parenting – last
This show was created with love on my volunteer time. One small gift you can give me back is to take the time to leave the show a comment and rating on iTunes. You can also support the production costs of the show by buying me a $3 coffee at buymeacoffee.com/dralexandra. I will be encouraged by your support, and thank you!